Healthypages

The power of now

Discussion in 'Meditation' started by DanielKotzer, Apr 13, 2015.

  1. DanielKotzer

    DanielKotzer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2014
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    22
    Right now, I'm holding a book written 500 years ago, by a Jewish rabbi, based on the knowledge of the ancients, on the subject of prophecy techniques.. The Jewish meditation technique, which the prophets had used to get visions from above, is basically a repetition technique, like in transcendental meditation. There are a set of holy mantras which you repeat. Interestingly, encrypting of a word is considered a meditative activity, in Jewish teaching of prophecy, just like repetition. The alpha-beth letters, 22 in number, are considered the embodiment of the angels themselves, which all together form the tree of life, which is the Jewish version of the chakras structure. Anyway, in this book, the author asks: When the godly man is in a state of meditative absorption, and his awareness goes up to the spiritual zone, how is it, that his thoughts are materializing instantly? His reply is that in this state you become one with God and therefore inherit godly properties.

    You can see that the phenomenon of thought materialization associated with meditation was well known long before the law of attraction was even heard of. I have no doubt that is it true, the question is how it works? I don't think that focused attention is what causing it to happen. Focused attention can bring you to a meditative state, because it is distracting you from thoughts. Once you are in a meditative state, thoughts tend to materialize (not always immediately), but distraction is not a good meditation technique, even if occasionally you might get into a deep meditative state through distraction.
     
    #41 DanielKotzer, Apr 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2015
  2. amy green

    amy green Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Messages:
    2,246
    Likes Received:
    636
    I am sorry but I have to fundamentally disagree and it does make me wonder whether you have accessed your intuition. (I realise intuition may be mistaken for gut instinct - there is an overlap but there are also differences).

    To say that all that is in our subconscious is just our experiences is like saying the iceberg is just what can be seen on top. The subconscious is SO much more...the deepest part of our selves/our soul and, our intuition can tap into a deeper knowledge not within our own making - I call it the divine source. Those who are spiritually focused are familiar with this. There is no unease about perception of such truth at all and I don't understand your explanation/reasoning on this.
     
    #42 amy green, Apr 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2015
  3. DanielKotzer

    DanielKotzer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2014
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    22
    I agree, I think this definition is too scientific -- too rigid and therefore misses the point.
     
  4. Paul Crick

    Paul Crick Healthypages Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Messages:
    4,949
    Likes Received:
    173
    I am not saying that we do not have intuition, for we do but if we are listening to our subconscious (subconscious and unconscious minds are scientific terms) that is under the control of our core beliefs, then it is easy to lead ourselves down the proverbial garden path, we think and we agree with them thoughts as they are in alignment with our core beliefs, these might well differ to the information that comes from our higher self which gives us our intuition.

    Our higher self is not influenced in any way by our core beliefs, we are free to believe anything we want to, but our beliefs will not change what we are, they are simply a belief that serves to create an experience, change the beliefs or let go of them and the experience changes.

    A typical example is when we choose to judge self and set up a core belief that we are not good enough for whatever, all of our inner dialog will then work to manifest experiences that surround that core belief, the inner dialog will only change when we are ready to change our minds and make a new choice. Because this is a personal choice, our full being sets about manifesting this reality, because we are all one, then other people will also start to make this happen for us.:)
     
  5. amy green

    amy green Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Messages:
    2,246
    Likes Received:
    636
    Paul - I do not recognise how you define the procedure for accessing intuition.....it does not involve investigation into core beliefs. Perhaps if I describe what transpires, in my experience, it may shed light on the matter.

    The mind needs to be stilled, receptive and without thought. When there is a lull....this allows the space to receive the info. It comes in a blinding flash in a kind of "eureka" fashion whereby there are absolutely no doubts of its validity and truth. It is also hallmarked as not coming from our own mindset.

    An example. I have a disturbed neighbour who keeps breaking into my back garden (there is no talking to her, she rants hysterically). She lives 2 houses from me. I have had to erect a high fence because of this but there are still other sides/weak spots that she finds to break entry, trespass and vandalise my garden. I can usually work out where she got in. On this particular occasion I was baffled and at a loss.

    My garden backs onto my upstair's tenant garden and I scoured this for a source of entry. So it was that I gave up....I let go...with a blank mind.....then, like an inner voice, I was being urged to look at the branches of a tree next door. I did so and saw that they were hanging uncharacteristically low....they had been bent down so as to clamber from the branches onto my tenant's shed roof! Without this helpful guiding hand/intuition, I doubt that I would have fathomed it out.
     
    #45 amy green, Apr 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2015
  6. Paul Crick

    Paul Crick Healthypages Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Messages:
    4,949
    Likes Received:
    173
    Hi Amy

    Understanding how our consciousness revolves around our core beliefs and how we use them to create our life experience, is useful to understand how we cloud our perceptions and restrict the type of thoughts that are classified as intuition that we are open to receive, there is a constant flow of information that becomes more accessible as we stop trying to be something, accept self and simply allow ourselves to be.

    When we become one though acceptance, all of our aspects of consciousness work as one, we do not have to quieten the mind to perceive what is happening in our other aspects of consciousness, they are all one and function as one within our awareness all of the time. ;)
     
  7. DanielKotzer

    DanielKotzer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2014
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    22
    Paul, on a previous thread you wrote:
    "Do you want to become whole or a flame? yes focusing upon a flame will distract you from your thoughts, but your thoughts are what you are, embrace them and accept them unconditionally and non judgmentally and they will become still, remove the inner divisional conflict/argument which create the chatter and we become still, we can then just observe and become aware of what is within the fullness of self and the oneness."

    So you yourself said, and I agree with it, that in meditation we need to be non judgmental, embrace and accept everything that happens externally and internally, including thoughts, and as a result, thoughts become still.

    All we are trying to do is build another building block, upon this foundation, and ask ourselves why? why is it so important for the mind to be still? and how as a result of this stillness, we get all the benefits of meditation? and how practically, do you become non-judgmental and embracing and accepting? -- the technical details should be clarified, in any type of practice - the clearer things get, the better you get in practicing it. why stick to the first building block? Why rest on your laurels? Why not make another step?
     
    #47 DanielKotzer, Apr 24, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 24, 2015
  8. Paul Crick

    Paul Crick Healthypages Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Messages:
    4,949
    Likes Received:
    173
    The reality is that being non-judgmental is a way of being rather than a meditative practice, it is all right being one way when we choose to set time aside to meditate, but do you not think that we should be that way all of the time?

    As for stilling the mind, why would you want to stop yourself being yourself? To reharmonise the mind we have to change the thing that is causing the disharmony within our consciousness, which is our selves; basically we chose to think and be one way and it created disharmony, when we choose to think and be another way it will create harmony, everything begins and end with a thought, simples. ;)
     
  9. DanielKotzer

    DanielKotzer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2014
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    22
    You don't come out of the meditative state once you finish practicing meditation, not completely. Meditation has a permanent effect on your being after the practice as well. But there is no way for an ordinary man to get to the meditative state, unless he practices meditation, so in the end the technique is very important.

    I think you noticed, just like I did recently, that mindfulness meditation contains a factor of distraction no matter how you practice it. You can be the passive-objective witness that stands aside and looks without judging, you can be the watcher on the hill that doesn't take part in any activity, and is detached and distant from all that is happening around him -- only paying attention to the experience of the "now" -- still, no matter how you look at mindfulness meditation, it is about distraction! You said it yourself previously on this thread: "Meditation is a form of distraction, but we cannot be aware of anything without a thought pattern that creates the awareness of being aware, to be fully aware of the now, requires us to focus our thoughts within what is, rather than being distracted by what has been or what might be."

    Mindfulness meditation technique is better then the Focused intention technique. You don't stick your attention forcibly on a focal point. You do it indirectly, but it still contains a factor of attention control. And therefore, the only meditation technique that involves no attention control is transcendental meditation, that is way everyone say it takes you the deepest, because it involves no distraction, and therefore stops all critical thought processes in the mind. But you have to learn it from someone who knows it well. Not every mantra meditation is a transcendental meditation. You can use the mantra as a focal point to distract you from thought. Real TM is simply thinking a repetitive thought, while thoughts can come and go freely.

    Here is some scientific research made by Dr. Fred Travis
    http://drfredtravis.com/Other Meditations.html


    You can see that the lowest brainwave frequency are measured in deep sleep and TM. I read elsewhere that you can even get to the Delta frequency (0.5-4Hz) while doing TM.
     
    #49 DanielKotzer, Apr 25, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2015
  10. Paul Crick

    Paul Crick Healthypages Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Messages:
    4,949
    Likes Received:
    173
    The now encompasses our life experience as it unfolds within the now.

    Meditation has its uses, it is a lot easier to help someone who is in a relaxed state of being than an agitated one, we utilise a couple of short and simple forms of meditation in our healing practice, one is to help people to become aware of themselves and the fullness of everything, the other is an active form which is used to reprogram peoples underlying thought patterns and beliefs.

    Past that it is entirely up to each individual to choose what they want to do, the now is one of many options that are available to the people who are open to choose, the meditation is not the now, the alternative state of being that a meditation induces is not the now, the now is the reality of what is, anything that distracts us from fully engaging and experiencing our life experience in the now, can only be described as a distraction. ;)
     
  11. DanielKotzer

    DanielKotzer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2014
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    22
    In my view, giving your attention to the experience of the "now" is just another way of distracting it from thoughts. I don't see how experiencing the now, by itself, makes you more spiritual, this was the starting point, from which I started this discussion. I guess I can't expect everyone to agree with me, but the discussion helped me see things more clearly.
     
  12. Paul Crick

    Paul Crick Healthypages Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Messages:
    4,949
    Likes Received:
    173
    I am not aware that I have said that being in the now makes you anything other than what we are?

    To my understanding we cannot actively give our attention to anything unless we choose to think about what we are placing our attention on, that requires thought, even meditation requires a conscious thought to get the process started, if we do not think, then we simply become mindless and unaware and do nothing, like being asleep!
     
  13. DanielKotzer

    DanielKotzer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2014
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    22
    Here is a nice video by Rupert Spira


    Like in almost every talk on meditation, he talks about the 'Now', and has his own idea why you can't think about the Now, and it is a very interesting subject to think about, philosophically. And it is a very neat technique to stop thinking, by pointing your attention at something that thought can't grasp, instead of fighting against thoughts that are constantly trying to steal your attention. But meditation is not about being in the now, it is about deactivating your conscious mind, so that the subconscious mind can be activated. One way of deactivating your conscious mind is by being in the now.

    Being in the "Now" has no spiritual meaning, but people are longing for meaning, so they find meaning. If you'll look good enough, you'll even find meaning in a Phone book. One should look for truth, not for meaning.
     
    #53 DanielKotzer, Apr 27, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2015
  14. Evansura

    Evansura New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2015
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    14
    Thank you! Will listen to it while driving.
     
  15. Paul Crick

    Paul Crick Healthypages Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Messages:
    4,949
    Likes Received:
    173
    Goodness that is hard work listening to that, I managed about 10 minutes. :)

    The answer is quite simply that there is only one now, if we attempt to analyse it we have moved out of the now to analyse what has been rather then being in the now flow of what is.

    Trying to relate the now which is a concept of oneness to the concept of diversionary time, where each segment of time is separate from the last segment of time, is pointless exercise, for the two work in completely different ways.

    I do not follow your train of thought that to get into the now, require us to deactivate our thinking mind, the now is the reality of our life experience as it unfolds around us, to deactivate our mind so that we are not aware of this life experience, will simply take us out of the now and place our awareness onto something other than the now, much the same as dwelling on what has been or dreaming of what will be, rather than being in the reality of the now does.

    I also do not understand why you think our other aspects of consciousness are inactive, rather than us not being aware of the level of activity that is always happening within the fullness of self!

    Perhaps you are referring to the other now which belongs to the oneness of consciousness, where everything is now right now because there is not time, that is different to our now reality, in which the only things that are in the now are the things that are unfolding for us right now?
     
  16. DanielKotzer

    DanielKotzer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2014
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    22
    Paul, I don't see how your answers are answering my question... ;) but thanks anyway :) I've learned some very important insights from you in the past and I appreciate that.

    And I thank everyone who participated in this discussion.
     
    #56 DanielKotzer, Apr 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2015
  17. Paul Crick

    Paul Crick Healthypages Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Messages:
    4,949
    Likes Received:
    173
    That is all right Daniel, but the next time you watch someone who is claiming to be deactivate their thinking mind, please consider how are they managing to stand or sit and how can they can talk when they should be in an unconscious state on the floor. :)
     
  18. DanielKotzer

    DanielKotzer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2014
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    22
    Update

    Found the answer myself:

    I once heard that in zen, there is a common saying: "When you eat - eat, when you walk - walk."

    If that is the meaning of "being in the Now", then being in the now is more then another meditation technique, it is the essence of meditation - building up an unshakable awareness, that stays alert even when you drift into the subconscious mind, while you are sleeping or daydreaming.
     
  19. Crowan

    Crowan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2010
    Messages:
    3,422
    Likes Received:
    1,075
    And is possible without meditation.
     
  20. DanielKotzer

    DanielKotzer Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2014
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    22
    I am 49 years of age, I lived all my life without meditation, struggling with stress and anxiety and emptiness and meaningless, without knowing there is a way out, through meditation. I heard a nice definition by a long term meditator: "it's not that because of meditation you don't feel pain, you feel it even more, because of the awareness, but you don't identify with the body, so even though the body aches, you are deep inside, in a place of blissfulness".

    Focusing the senses on one thing is a meditation technique, because it is not the goal. it is a means to an end - it causes your attention to focus on one thing. You can focus your attention on one thing even without focusing the senses. And focusing the attention, in its turn, is also only a means to an end - it causes the focus of the self, which is what awareness is all about. You can focus the self, meaning to become aware, without focusing the attention, once you grab the principle.

    But this experience of awareness, if I hadn't experienced it - through meditation - I don't think I would have ever come to realize it.
     
    2 people like this.

Share This Page

This site uses XenWord.