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Souls

Discussion in 'Spiritualism' started by scommstech, Jun 1, 2011.

  1. Crowan

    Crowan Well-Known Member

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    I didn't understand what you meant by
    Some of your notions appear to carry the burden of humankind's ideas

    As for my comment
    I do know that the two have different enough beliefs for anyone who takes them seriously to eventually have to make a choice between them
    I didn't make myself clear. I meant that spiritualism and shamanism are different enough for people who take them seriously to have to decide between practicing one or the other.

    So, are the "earthbound" literally earth-bound? In that they remain here? I've found that, while some are still here (would you call these 'ghosts'?) many souls are stuck between here and the Land of the Dead, in the area that is full of fog.

    What do rescuers do? Do they take the souls to the Land of the Dead, or do they send them?

    And thanks for your time and patience.
     
  2. mac

    mac Active Member

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    quote Crowan

    I didn't understand what you meant by
    Some of your notions appear to carry the burden of humankind's ideas What didn't you understand?

    As for my comment
    I do know that the two have different enough beliefs for anyone who takes them seriously to eventually have to make a choice between them
    I didn't make myself clear. I meant that spiritualism and shamanism are different enough for people who take them seriously to have to decide between practicing one or the other. Why do you feel that? Spiritualism isn't something that is, or would have to be, practised.... I can't compare that with shamanism as it's not my speciality as you know.

    So, are the "earthbound" literally earth-bound? no In that they remain here? no I've found that, while some are still here (would you call these 'ghosts'?) no many souls are stuck between here and the Land of the Dead, in the area that is full of fog. fog? I'll be blunt as I'm sure you'll appreciate that. I don't know where the "Land of the Dead' is or what that might mean to you. The Spiritualist perception is that there is no death - it's simply a transition from living in one dimension to living in the next.... As for 'fog' well I'll refer again to my earlier suggestion, quote: " the burden of humankind's ideas"

    What do rescuers do? Do they take the souls to the Land of the Dead, or do they send them? Depends where rescuers are. If it's an incarnate rescue group - folk working from the physical - they'll work with the individual needing help and help her/him to realise and accept that they're no longer incarnate. If they're discarnate rescuers they'll try to do much the same. Neither can force the issue - there's no "taking" of the individual but naturally (s)he may be accompanied there by the discarnate rescuer(s). As for "sending" them, how would that work? Again such wording sounds, to me, to be a human concept, what incarnates believe might happen.....

    And thanks for your time and patience. Not at all - happy to try to help. I hope you won't be put off where I challenge the words you've used? I'm hoping it will show you how differently we express the concepts you're asking about.
     
  3. mac

    mac Active Member

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    This is your test message, J....
     
  4. silverhoodedowl

    silverhoodedowl New Member

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    No emails received,Mac.
    Luckily the topic is recorded also in my profile. So found your message.
    Checked email notifications in my mail box for the last three hours but none received.
    Email notifications are correctly ticked.
    Please can Mods check my profile to verify that email verification is ticked correctly.
    As a second opinion.
    Thanks Mac for your help,followed your instructions to the letter.
    Let's see what happens.
    :)
     
  5. mac

    mac Active Member

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    weird - The notification of your own message reached me OK so it shows that the notification system's working OK - might it be that you've registered with an email address that you're no longer using?

    Of course if you are you won't see this message to be able to check!
     
  6. silverhoodedowl

    silverhoodedowl New Member

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    I'm in,Mac. Had to dig to find it.
    Still using the email addy I've always used,same one you use.
    Still no answer from Hp.
    Going to start a new topic off in Spiritualism.
    Watch for it,answer it and see what happens.
    J.
     
  7. mac

    mac Active Member

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    curiouser and curiouser - I guess there's a bug in the software? :eek:
     
  8. myarka

    myarka New Member

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    I've checked silverhoodedowl's settings and notifications are enabled. Therefore the next most common reason for emails not being received is that they may be treated as spam.

    If you are not receiving notification emails and they are enabled in your account settings, check your computer's spam folder.

    On behalf of the moderators
    Myarka
     
  9. mac

    mac Active Member

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    It's what I've just been wondering about - spam settings can be harsh and aren't always obvious. Occasionally a notification from any of my several regular websites (from which I get numerous emails daily) will inexplicably end up in the spam folder.
     
  10. Crowan

    Crowan Well-Known Member

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    My first reaction here was to think – if I knew what I didn’t understand, I’d understand it! However, later you say, such wording sounds, to me, to be a human concept, what incarnates believe might happen.....
    so I shall assume that’s what you meant. Okay. You understand that that’s what your ideas sound like to me, also? I don’t see that that matters. I’m not attempting a conversion and (again, I assume) neither are you. I want to understand where particular students are coming from and anything I’ve written about shamanism is only to explain what I meant by “what happens when people die?” I appreciate that this is not the area of the HP forum for debating the differences. I’m just seeking information.

    I don’t ‘feel’ anything. I’m stating fact. I’m not saying why the choice comes up, only that it does. The reasons might well be different for each person. But generally, I would say that what is discovered through shamanic practice contradicts what is believed in spiritualism, and people find they can only believe one or the other. Remember, I’m not directing this. I’ve just observed it several times. It’s largely because of this fact that I wanted to understand what the conflict is.

    I think I have a clearer idea now - although if anyone else would like to chip in, that would be great. I don't think this area of the forum is quite the right place to take the discussion deeper - maybe in "Inter-faith", if anyone were interested?
     
  11. Kiga

    Kiga New Member

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    I'd love to hear more about the different beliefs regarding what happens to souls when the physical body dies. I have held my own beliefs on the subject for many years but have never investigated Shamanism and would be interested in learning more.
     
  12. Crowan

    Crowan Well-Known Member

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    If you post the question in either Inter-faith or Shamanism I'd be very happy to get into a discussion, Kiga :). I'm a bit wary of filling Spiritualism with shamanic stuff, but in the right environment I'm difficult to shut up on the subject!;)
     
  13. mac

    mac Active Member

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    Crowan

    My first reaction here was to think – if I knew what I didn’t understand, I’d understand it! In the past I've spent much effort answering what I thought individuals had asked about. Later I would find out it wasn't what they were after at all but they hadn't made their points clearly - hence now I ask first and answer second. May I say that there is much I don't understand and I know and can explain exactly what I don't understand but (using your idea) doing that still wouldn't mean I understand it.....

    ;)
    However, later you say,
    such wording sounds, to me, to be a human concept, what incarnates believe might happen.....
    so I shall assume that’s what you meant. Okay. You understand that that’s what your ideas sound like to me, also? If you say so and if that's the case then I need to stress that what I've related aren't my ideas so much as my words conveying (perhaps poorly) what's been given as guidance and is found in Spiritualist philosophy. Where I've failed is down to me. I don’t see that that matters. Thanks but my failure matters to me... I’m not attempting a conversion and (again, I assume) neither are you. absolutely not I want to understand where particular students are coming from and anything I’ve written about shamanism is only to explain what I meant by “what happens when people die?” I appreciate that this is not the area of the HP forum for debating the differences. I’m just seeking information. From the little I've heard here about shamanism here appear to be some differences. We'd have to do a point-by-point comparison to properly evaluate those apparent differences, to test whether they truly are differences. As you say, a Spiritualism forum isn't the place for that.



    I don’t ‘feel’ anything. I’m stating fact. I’m not saying why the choice comes up, only that it does. From that I'm deducing that you are in contact with individuals who are equally knowledgeable about both 'isms and have felt moved to choose one over the other? That surprises me. I haven't 'spoken' to anyone who's said they have faced such a choice. The reasons might well be different for each person. But generally, I would say that what is discovered through shamanic practice contradicts what is believed in spiritualism, and people find they can only believe one or the other. We Spiritualists don't have, or use, any practices - the concept of a practice really does sound odd to me. And knowledgeable individuals don't generally have a need for any belief. Remember, I’m not directing this. I’ve just observed it several times. It’s largely because of this fact that I wanted to understand what the conflict is. I accept what you're saying - in return I'd ask you if the individuals you know are Spiritualists or spiritualists. If the difference isn't clear to you then it may not be clear to your contacts either. It's a situation I experience constantly - one of misunderstanding what Spiritualism is.

    I think I have a clearer idea now - although if anyone else would like to chip in, that would be great. I don't think this area of the forum is quite the right place to take the discussion deeper - maybe in "Inter-faith", if anyone were interested? I hope I've given you some indication of the very obvious differences in the areas of 'practice' and of belief? Those two are easy to define. I'd love to hear what my fellow Modern Spiritualists think about the matters we've debated in these postings.

    As a final observation I'll go out on a limb by saying I expect there will be few, if any, Spiritualists answering and that it's more likely that we'll hear from individuals interested in spirituality rather than Spiritualism.

    mac


     
  14. Kiga

    Kiga New Member

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    Thanks for replying to my post, Crowan - I've found that often individual posts get "lost" when some discussions are going on! I will put my questions in the appropriate thread. :)
     
  15. Crowan

    Crowan Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your reply, Mac.

    Fair enough. Then I will say instead - what is found in Spiritualist philosophy sounds, to me, as if it’s a human concept. I don’t think you’ve failed, I think that it is simply that I disagree with Spiritualist philosophy – or, at least, that bit of it. And I still don’t see that it matters if two people believe different things.

    Have you talked to many people who have moved from Shamanism to Spiritualism? People are uncomfortable when two different paths contradict each other. They choose the one that they can cope with best.

    Okay – wrong words, maybe. But people talk about being ‘practicing Christians’ when they mean believing what is taught and attending church. That’s all I meant. Shamanism, on the other hand, does have practices. Your distinction between ‘belief’ and ‘knowledge’ applies to shamanism as well – I know these things. But, when discussing like this, I tend to use ‘believe’ because it’s less confrontational than saying, “I know this is so” (and, by implication, that others are wrong).

    Good. New food for thought. The people I mean attend Spiritualist churches and have often had training as mediums or (more commonly) healers. They have investigated shamanism either because they’ve come across it and been interested in what they’ve heard, or their spirit guides have directed them towards it.
    So, what is the difference?
     
  16. mac

    mac Active Member

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  17. Crowan

    Crowan Well-Known Member

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    Hi,

    I don’t know a great deal about Spiritualism (as you’ve probably gathered) but, by Spiritualist philosophy, do you mean the Seven Principles? If not, could you direct me to where I can read about what you do mean? (I don’t want to answer your question about the conflicts between shamanism and Spiritualism before I’m sure we’re talking about the same thing.)
    As for more information about people being told to investigate shamanism by their spirit guides – what do you want to know?
     
  18. mac

    mac Active Member

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  19. Crowan

    Crowan Well-Known Member

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    Dear Mac,

    I don't feel this is getting anywhere. I keep asking about Spiritualism and you keep telling me why my questions are worded incorrectly.

    Just two things -

    Spirit Guides - this is what the people concerned call them. Shamanic people don't have guides, spirit or otherwise. We have shamanic Teachers - and I'm pretty certain that these are not different names for the same thing.

    conflict - I'm referring to the conflict felt by people trying to make a choice between the two.


    No. I've never come across this.


    I'm really sorry that others have not joined in. That would have widened the discussion.
     
  20. mac

    mac Active Member

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