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Is this Rumi or A Course in Miracles???

Discussion in 'Spirituality' started by trin, Oct 4, 2007.

  1. trin

    trin New Member

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    "Your task is not to seek for love,but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it."

    This is a most beautiful and profound quote.

    I have seen it famously given reference to as a quote from Jalal ad-Din Rumi (who was born 800 years ago). It is however also written word for word in A Course in Miracles (page 338 chapter 16 IV:6).

    A course in miracles is supposed to be a channeled original work.

    I can find the quote all over the internet accredited to Rumi, yet I cannot find any conclusive evidence of it's origin. Does anyone know any more? Any insight much appreciated.
     
  2. Energylz

    Energylz Moody-rator ©
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  3. Energylz

    Energylz Moody-rator ©
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    From what I can see, it seems that only "a course in miracles" accredit that quote to Jesus:

    Everywhere else accredits it to Rumi.

    I'd personally go with the majority in this case.
     
  4. trin

    trin New Member

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  5. Energylz

    Energylz Moody-rator ©
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    Yes, some "chanelling" is just retrieving that which we already know in our unconscious mind. It could just be that whoever did the "chanelling" had heard the quote somewhere before and had it stored away in their unconscious just waiting to come out. ;)

    Love and Reiki Hugs
     
  6. trin

    trin New Member

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    That correlates to my findings... Thank you for sharing. Let's see if any other budding detectives have any more info on the case :)
     
  7. trin

    trin New Member

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    We are indeed on the same page this morning :eek: Just what I was thinking!
     
  8. Venetian

    Venetian New Member

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    It's a great and profound quote.

    The story behind its accredition reminds me of something that happened in the late 1800s when the Mahatmas who were H.P. Blavatsky's teachers would just make letters appear in peoples' rooms all over the world, often falling from the air. So this isn't quite channeling, and I agree with Giles' take on that subject. But with the Mahatma letters there were of course sceptics who didn't believe they were authentic and sought to prove some form of global trickery was afoot.

    They found a paragraph or such in a letter by Koot Hoomi Lal Singh (now usually called Kuthumi) which was word-for-word the same as that in an existing book. Ah-ha! Evidence that the letters at least were not original pieces by a Himalayan Adept! But Kuthumi then replied trying to explain the very complex mechanism by which that and other letters were done. He said that he'd been riding a horse for days, lacking sleep, and had telepathically dictated the letter to a disciple scores of miles away. This disciple then wrote it down, and was capable of the teleportation. Under such hard conditions, not only riding, and simultaneously using telepathy, but actually composing the long letter, Kuthumi said he had indeed unwittingly used the words, which made his point well, not realising he'd picked them up from the ethers since many had read the book.

    It's all a bit like the story behind George Harrisong's "My Sweet Lord". It was a big hit but later he was sued for plagiarism of the melody. It is indeed a note-for-note copy of the song, "He's So Fine" (which to me has better lyrics). Obviously George had unconsciously taken in this melody which came out in something like 1962-3.

    The author of Course In Miracles seems to have done something the same?

    V
     
  9. Binah

    Binah Moderator

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    I think the current laws of plagiarism, wouldn't take too kindly to this, but there again law don't take into account the fact that many people can pick up on the same message that is being transmitted by the planetary hierarchy, the masters or call it whatever you want.

    How many times do we get similar books being published at the same times, and is this merely coincidence or more than that. The message is the same, just a different messenger. If Rumi wrote it 800 years ago the message still carries the same power but would be available to a broader group - which I think is a great thing. It's the message that's important and not the personality who said it.

    Luv Binah
    x
     
  10. Barafundle

    Barafundle New Member

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    But would that stand up in court? :)
     
  11. Venetian

    Venetian New Member

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    I only know that if Kuthumi ever appeared personally in court to explain such a thing, I'd want to be in the public gallery!
     
  12. Barafundle

    Barafundle New Member

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    If you Google 'Kuthumi' you come across quite a few people channeling him too. Maybe he wouldn't have to appear personally :)
     
    #12 Barafundle, Oct 5, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 5, 2007
  13. Venetian

    Venetian New Member

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    Yes .... the "channelers" are not authentic IMO. Others are actually called 'Messengers', which is quite different, and those you get through a google search authentic IMO. (And I know you were only kidding anyway :) .)

    The Wikipedia on him is short but accurate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuthumi

    Back on-topic, it's not just plagiarism (probably unconscious?) in A Course on Miracles, but with the words accredited to Jesus, then this is a factual innacuracy too.

    V
     
  14. trin

    trin New Member

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    Hi V :eek:

    I enjoyed reading your interesting post (post number 8 that is).

    The concept of 'ownership' is rather a interesting one!

    I do remember writing a poem many years back. Some time passed and I read a passage from a book, at which point my eyes almost popped out of my head! They had written almost word for word the same as one of the verses in my poem!!! I'd never read anything like it before. So your sharing above does strike a chord.

    Trin
    x
     
  15. Healistic

    Healistic New Member

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    Of course the same could apply to Rumi.

    Like most information whether channelled or not, there is no guarantee that it was or is original. Just because the majority of people seem to agree to a source, that does not IMO make it a fact.

    I would just say go with whatever feels right for each of us.
     
  16. trin

    trin New Member

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    Someone pointed me here:


    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jalal_al-Din_Muhammad_Rumi

    At which point I found this....

    "Misattributed
    • Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.


    Usually with a quote we can trace it back to an orignal text, poem, book etc. With the above quote (when attributed to Rumi) it only ever seems to be quoted out of context without reference to its original source.

    On the other hand in ACIM the quote is embedded amidst other text.

    Perhaps it is not a Rumi quote after all.
     
  17. Barafundle

    Barafundle New Member

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    I couldn't say for sure Trin, but the quote could be from Rumi's collection of poems and stories called 'Masnavi'.

    "Comprising six books of poems that amount to more than 50,000 lines, it pursues its way through 424 stories that illustrate man's predicament in his search for God."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masnavi
     
  18. Venetian

    Venetian New Member

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    Hmm. Almost needs a call for Sherlock Holmes? The Wiki piece on Rumi seems assured that the lines aren't from him after all, but who wrote it? I see there's nothing behind the article, as a discussion page.

    V
     
  19. Barafundle

    Barafundle New Member

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    Does it? Can't see where it says that :034:
     
  20. Venetian

    Venetian New Member

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