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Is evolution an argument for atheism?

Discussion in 'Scientific Matters' started by Principled, Dec 2, 2009.

  1. Principled

    Principled Well-Known Member

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    :nature-smiley-008: Ah.. thanks V, got in at last. (See Scott - I'm not learned at all!)

    Hey, where's the light bulb smilie gone?

    Judy
     
  2. Principled

    Principled Well-Known Member

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    Interview with Dr L Doyle

    I could have given this its own thread, but it seemed to belong well on this thread. Those of you who have been here for a while will have heard me mention Dr Laurance Doyle - an astro-physicist who is also a Christian Scientist. He sees everything from the point of view of science, though admitting that he sometimes has to use religious phraseology to describe things! His insights are so fresh. I was delighted to find a radio interview with station KEST in the San Francisco area. This was part of their "Spiritual Perspectives" programme http://www.lifeinsights.net/Radio.html

    He starts off talking a bit about SETI and how he has diversified into studying communications here on earth, particularly with humpback whales and dolphins. They have learnt that information theory applies to animal communications too.

    He speaks of the conflict between quantum physics and physiology. How the quantum physicists have become reluctant metaphysicians, their discoveries leading to the realm of ideas where consciousness is substantial.

    He gives us an example at the end, of how it is actually impossible to talk in real time between someone in California and someone else in New York, because sound travels at 700 m.p.h., so it would take 10 hours to get an answer. “Physics has its place, but limitation doesn’t. Limitations are what are not real.”

    Dr Doyle’s interview is here. It’s about an hour but well worth listening to.

    http://www.lifeinsights.net/files/07-30-10_Spiritual_Perspectives_with_Dr_Laurance_Doyle.mp3

    Enjoy!

    Judy
     
    #102 Principled, Sep 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2010
  3. songstress

    songstress New Member

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    Do you think evolution is an argument for atheism? This lecture argues that not only did Darwin believe in God, but today we can intelligently understand the nature of God without pushing aside scientific discoveries. Daniel looks beyond the popular evolution vs. creationism debate and explores the nature of God as a scientific reality.

    Hi Judy,

    I never once thought that science and faith are incompatible, The two fit together like a hand inside a glove. Evolution is a proven fact. Given that premise, then what is the nature of God, if not a proven fact? It must be so, for as all nature evolves, so must the Universe, and since God is the ultimate being, then He/She/It must surely evolve too. In other words, all nature moves on, it doesn't stand still, so therefore the nature of God must also move on.

    Bit convoluted, but hope you get the idea.

    Patsy.
     
    #103 songstress, Jun 19, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2012
  4. songstress

    songstress New Member

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    David said:

    That puts it into a nutshell for me. If there is a Higher Power (or Powers...) their influence upon this world is going to manifest through what are eventually material means. Evolution could easily be God's way of working some things out.

    Says it all.

    Patsy,
     
    #104 songstress, Jun 19, 2012
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  5. songstress

    songstress New Member

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    ...and again:

    (I've never seen a reason for the existence of evolution to discount God, in other words.)

    Me neither.
     
  6. Crowan

    Crowan Well-Known Member

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    This depends on your view of what (a) god is.
     
  7. Principled

    Principled Well-Known Member

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    Hi Patsy! Well, what a lovely surprise to see you here again! Gosh, this thread was started in 2009 and I don't suppose any of the links work anymore, but never mind.
    To me, God is Life Itself, Love Itself, Truth Itself, constantly unfolding Itself to itself.

    Though here she uses the term man, what Mary Baker Eddy means is the spiritual idea of God, which includes the spiritual dimension of the universe, including man:

    I love the imagery in the bottom bit! ;)

    Judy
     
  8. songstress

    songstress New Member

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    Hi Judy,

    Great to be back!

    Hi Crowan,

    I have no idea what god is, but I am pretty sure he's not a white-bearded man on a throne. I think that image was created so that it made sense to the early Christians.

    Evolution of species has happened since life began. I am a trained scientist (geologist) and I have seen many remarkable things, but very natural, in my studies of the earth. It was during a mapping exercise in the Massif Central region of France that I realised that all this must have come about not in any random fashion, but because nature wanted it to. Now, I think of god as Nature, I am not religious at all, not in the sense that most people think. To me, 'god' is within us, in nature, in rocks, plants and all life (the planet is a living being, too.) I don't hold with the view that god is some ever-loving being; it is sometimes brutal, casual and honest and that everything happens for a reason. I believe in angels, but not the white, fluffy beings with wings. Angels come in all guises, and not only for good things. Having personally witnessed them, I can honestly say that.

    Being a scientist doesn't mean that one shouldn't hold theist beliefs on the basis that one has studied the natural world to an extent. Many scientists are church-goers, witches, shamans, mediums, and have a very strong faith.

    We haven't yet touched on the power of the mind, what god is./isn't or what leads a person to believe what they do. Just because some things cannot be replicated in a laboratory, and that some experiences are entirely personal, doesn't negate those experiences; it just means that some have to wait for experiences of their own.

    I know I'm speaking to you Crowan, and you are a shaman, but I don't know what you do for a living, as it were, in the working world, or how much of your shamanic side you portray in 'normal' life, but as nature evolves so belief (and therefore god) evolves along with it.

    Patsy.
     
    #108 songstress, Jun 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2012
  9. Crowan

    Crowan Well-Known Member

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    Whatever it is, there has to be a difference between ‘god’ and ‘a god’. Whether or not evolution disproves the existence of God (as an all-powerful creater), it does make ‘him’ unnecessary to an explanation of how the world and all in it came about. That is so whether we call ‘him’ God, Goddess, Great Spirit, Nature or anything else. Therefore it’s all down to what each individual feels comfortable with. I’m not comfortable with any all-powerful creator, while being very comfortable with many gods (including the Christian one, so long as no-one expects me to take any notice of him).
    It’s what I do for a living. My ‘shamanic side’ is my ‘normal life’.
     
  10. wishful

    wishful New Member

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    Absolutely nailed what i have felt for some time. Its why common sense is sometimes lacking in a left brain imprisoned being.
     
  11. spiritual nut

    spiritual nut New Member

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    Involution

    Evolution?

    What about involution ???
     

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